John – your book, General Hastings ‘Pug’ Ismay: Soldier, Statesman, Diplomat was published nearly two years ago. Can you give us an outline of the life of ‘Pug’ Ismay, a man you describe as ‘an unusual subject for a biography’? Who was he, and provide us with some context of why he ought to be considered more of a protagonist in British military circles.
Ismay is indeed an unusual subject for a biography. For a start, most people have never heard of him. But more importantly, almost all bios of generals are about senior campaign commanders: vivid tales of battlefield drama and the clash of armies. After all, that’s what sells books! But Ismay’s career does not fit this model. In many ways it was the opposite. As a young Indian Army officer in the early 1900s, he quickly gained combat experience in skirmishes with Afghan tribesmen. He spent World War One in a military backwater, the British Somaliland Protectorate (modern-day Somalia). Thereafter, he never commanded anything above the rank of lieutenant colonel. His career was as a staff officer confined to desk jobs, almost all of them in Whitehall. There he worked his way up to become head of the Committee of Imperial Defence, responsible for advising government on strategy and preparations for war. In 1940, Prime Minister Winston Churchill chose him to be his chief staff officer. The two established a close, personal relationship. Then in 1947 the now General Lord Ismay went to India as Chief of Staff to the Viceroy, Lord Mountbatten, and was closely involved in the drama of Partition. In 1951, Churchill brought him into his Cabinet as Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations. And finally, Ismay became the first Secretary General of NATO from 1952-1957 at the height of the Cold War. That’s quite a career! In fact, it’s completely unique, and his achievements are unmatched – before or since.
Perhaps it is a cliché, but it appears that Ismay really has this military career of extremes, during which the geopolitical make-up of the world changes dramatically, from those skirmishes with Afghan tribesmen you mention to heading NATO in the 50s. Talk us through those early years.
Well, Ismay was commissioned in 1905 into an Indian Army cavalry regiment, serving on India’s North-West Frontier. The regiment was part of a force mobilised to carry out an expedition against a particularly warlike Afghan tribe who had been carrying out cross-border raids. Ismay and his troop quickly found themselves in the thick of the fighting. His courageous leadership caught the eye of observers. In early 1914, he volunteered for active service in British Somaliland with the newly-raised, British-officered Somaliland Camel Corps. An insurgency was taking place there, led by someone referred to by the British media as ‘the Mad Mullah’. But when war broke out in Europe, he made strenuous efforts to get posted to the main event. Despite these continuing efforts he was to remain there for five long, frustrating years, albeit rising to command the Camel Corps. When he eventually returned, he was sent as a student to Staff College where, despite his total lack of experience of modern, 20th-century warfare, he passed at the top of the course. He was then sent to what was to be the first of four appointments with the highly prestigious Committee of Imperial Defence.
What essential qualities do you think were required for his particular career path and the sea change that shadows Britain’s role on the international stage?
Ismay was highly intelligent, articulate and well read. In all his appointments he showed outstanding common sense and good judgment. He was respected by colleagues, military and civilian alike, and was renowned for his ability to bring consensus and conciliation where none seemed possible. He was also gregarious, charming and popular. What he was not was egotistical, ambitious or bombastic (unlike some senior officers!).
Between the wars, Ismay builds a lot of expertise in ‘transition to war’ – not just for Britain but across the Empire and with the imperial allies. He goes from somebody on the fringes in World War One to being in one of the most important staff roles, working as Chief Staff Officer to (and, by all accounts, having a ‘big fan’ in) Prime Minister Winston Churchill? Why did the two form a relationship and what was the career path that brought them together?
In terms of ‘transition to war’, Ismay was indeed an expert, if not the expert. For example, he was responsible for what was known as the Government War Book: the comprehensive instruction which coordinated the war preparation of all government departments across Whitehall. It proved its value and quality at the outbreak of war in September 1939. As to Ismay and Churchill, they first met and worked together during the 1926 General Strike. Churchill was chairman of the committee responsible for military assistance to keep the country running; Major Ismay was tasked to assist him. Churchill was highly impressed by Ismay; the feeling was mutual. When Ismay became Deputy Cabinet Secretary in 1939, Churchill’s admiration was reinforced. He saw that Ismay was not only someone with excellent judgment who could get things done but was a kindred spirit with whom he believed he could work well.
Ismay is a diplomat-soldier and a seemingly calming influence, especially in World War Two. How did he get a handle on Churchill and his moods and frustration with those around him like Alanbrooke in the staff meetings?
Ismay’s renowned talent for conciliation and restoring harmony earned him the nickname ‘the man with the oilcan’ across Whitehall. He got to know Churchill very well. Indeed, he spent more time with him during the war than anyone else outside the Churchill family. He held him in great respect and admiration but recognised that the prime minister could be unreasonable, over-demanding, ill-tempered and, at times, childish. He became adept at handling him, knowing when and how to counter a proposal, when to let it go forward – possibly with a bit of rewording – or when to divert Churchill’s attention with a more pressing matter. When things got stormy at the Prime Minister’s meetings with the Chiefs of Staff he did not intervene at the time but afterwards would use all his diplomatic skills to defuse the situation. On several occasions during the war, the Chiefs contemplated joint resignation, or Churchill threatened to sack them, and it was Ismay who succeeded in restoring calm and common sense. It was one of his greatest contributions to the higher direction of the war.
The NATO role he takes on follows on from this conciliating approach and the work he did during the international conferences during the later years of the war, the immediate aftermath and even into the Attlee government. Would you say it was a natural progression for Ismay to take on the position of first Secretary General in 1952?
It may look like that in retrospect, but it didn’t at the time. In 1952 when, four years after NATO’s formation, its council decided that the Alliance should have a Secretary General, Ismay was in the Cabinet as Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations. The Council wanted the first Secretary General to be British. The first candidate approached by Churchill declined. So did Ismay, but Churchill used all his powers of persuasion and Ismay finally succumbed. The choice proved to be an inspired one. He was an immense success, instrumental in cementing the foundations of the Alliance and enhancing its unity and cohesion at the height of the Cold War.
The world is clearly in a more fractured state now than the East-West polarity during the early years of the Cold War when Ismay led NATO. How would you imagine he could have navigated the current international quandaries of 2026 and what words might he have for his successor, Mark Rutte?
There are some things about the world today that Ismay would instantly recognise, notably the considerable threat posed by Russia to the West. But he would be shocked to the core to find that the greatest threat to NATO’s existence and effectiveness comes not from Russia but from the United States of America. In his day the USA was the leader of the free world, the lynchpin of NATO, the guarantor of peace. He was its greatest admirer. I don’t think he would criticise Mark Rutte who has been – like Ismay did – doing all in his power to enhance the capability and cohesion of the Alliance. I think, though, that Ismay would have some words of criticism for the political leaders of the European member-nations of NATO who for far too long have taken for granted America’s huge financial contribution and who, in their own much-declared support for NATO, have failed to put their money where their mouth is.
Among some great reviews, Antony Beevor said you have ‘rightly returned Ismay to the front rank of key figures in the Second World War’. That was, presumably, the intention from the outset and must be very satisfying to hear?
Actually, that wasn’t my intention. I set out to tell the story of Ismay’s life; to paint a wholly accurate and telling portrait, wherever that might lead. By the time I finished my research I was clear that Ismay does indeed belong in the front rank of key figures, not just of World War Two but of momentous events both before and after it.
And what are you working on at the moment? Is another biography on the cards, or a particular area of research?
A number of subjects, actually, one of which is the Punic Wars – the three wars between Rome and Carthage which occurred between 264 and 146 BC. I find it a fascinating subject, not least the career of Hannibal, Carthaginian leader in the Second Punic War. But I’m not sure precisely where all of this is leading. Watch this space!
John Kiszely is a former senior army officer and the author of General Hastings ‘Pug’ Ismay: Soldier, Statesman, Diplomat – A New Biography.
Zeb Baker-Smith is a Classics teacher based in Malawi, a freelance journalist and Editor at Aspects of History.
This interview was published in February 2026’s issue of the Aspects of History magazine which is now available to read.
