Anne, many congrats on the new novel. We’re in England in the early 1450s and just at the start of the Wars of the Roses. Queen Margaret and Anne, Countess of Warwick are the main two characters. What was the genesis of the story?
The battles and political struggles of the Wars of the Roses are well known. My purpose was to examine the role of women rather than that of their menfolk. I wished particularly to re-balance what we know of two women from the most vital families in the conflict: Margaret of Anjou, the vicious She-Wolf who would stop at nothing to achieve her ambitions, and Anne, Countess of Warwick, who has faded into insignificance beside her more infamous husband. Did their path ever cross? Was there a connection between them when it did? Margaret’s influence on events is clear, but what of the Countess of Warwick?
In your research, what did you find about the characters of both Margaret and Anne?
There is far more evidence for Margaret although much of it tends to be negative. She is usually shown as arrogant, ambitious, driven and proud, a dominant woman unwilling to take advice. In comparison, Anne is a mere shadow although not it seems without character. When trapped in confinement by Edward IV Anne did not simply accept it but fought for her rights, and continued to do so throughout her life until some of her inheritance was restored to her. It is the role of historical fiction to give Anne a platform to stand on.
When Margaret gave birth to their only son, Edward her husband, Henry VI, succumbed to a breakdown. Why do you think that happened?
At the age of 31 King Henry suffered a dramatic mental illness, becoming mute and unresponsive. Henry recognised neither his wife nor his new-born son. When he recovered some of his faculties he was often apathetic, with a deterioration in his ability to make decisions, and in his care for the royal impression he made.
This illness has been diagnosed by modern historians as catatonic schizophrenia, a condition characterised by symptoms which all seem to fit well with what we know of Henry at this time. Other historians have left the jury out on this and simply called it a mental breakdown. Whatever it was, it rendered Henry unfit to rule, casting the whole burden onto Margaret’s shoulders.
Margaret and Anne make an alliance in the novel, bridging the houses of Lancaster and York. How important is the female element story of the Wars of the Roses?
In general it has to be said that the role of women, apart from Queen Margaret, is of secondary importance in the wars, which is the story of ambitious men. Even so, because I write about medieval women I thought the women deserved an airing. Margaret is an essential part of the main story of course, but how did she react to the women connected with the House of York? They did not live in a bubble, their lives quite separate from each other. Was there any empathy between the women? Was any level of friendship ever possible? An interesting element to explore.
With Henry incapacitated, how effective were Margaret’s political skills – and is this something we perhaps neglect in this period?
In our appreciation of Margaret we have been overshadowed by Shakespeare’s view of the She Wolf. Queens in their own right were not popular, thus her policies were disparaged when she took on the mantle of royal power. Margaret had little choice but to fight if she wished to preserve her husband’s crown and the inheritance of her son, driving her on to defeat the House of York. It has to be said that Margaret was not an easy woman to live with, finding it easier to make enemies than friends. History has stayed to close to the She Wolf and perhaps not taken into account her lack of choice.
Anne, Countess of Warwick was married to the Kingmaker. How influential was she on him, since historians question his abilities, but not hers.
We have very little idea of Anne’s influence on her husband. He owned much of his initial wealth and certainly his title to her, but, regardless of any opinion she might have, Warwick was driven by personal ambition and once on the path to power in England it was impossible for him to retreat. His downfall became inevitable when he sided with Queen Margaret and returned to England to fight for the Lancastrians.
What political conversations were exchanged between Warwick and his wife – there is no evidence of any, although of course they existed. What could Anne do but follow her husband and hope for the best? She needed his power and his protection. When she lost it and Warwick was dead, her position became untenable and she fell into King Edward’s hands.
The vicious fighting during this era (eg St Albans) was matched by the political machinations. How much did Anne as the daughter in law of Margaret, prolong their relationship after the death of her husband Edward in 1471?
The relationship between all three women, Margaret, Anne and Anne’s daughter Anne Neville was hacked about by circumstances imposed upon them. All three had no alternative but to follow royal orders. Margaret was placed in confinement by King Edward IV until he could arrange a financial deal to send her back to France. Countess Anne was equally kept under duress because of the value of her inheritance. Anne Neville might have been the connecting link between them but she was drawn into marriage with Richard of Gloucester, thus her future loyalties given to him rather than her mother.
Did the Queen and the Countess communicate at all in these later years? I imagined that they might. Margaret’s prayer roll depicting her at prayer, kneeling at her prie-dieu, found its way back to England and is now in the care of the Bodleian Library. We know these objects were often given as a gifts from one female to another. Did Margaret send it to Countess Anne when they were separated in later life? No evidence but a nice thought.
[SPOILER ALERT] Margaret died impoverished in 1482. What is her legacy?
Sadly, in spite of her troubled life, a definitive legacy does not exist for Margaret. With no heirs, she had no permanent influence on England unless it is a dislike of Queens who wield too much power in their own right. Both Mary I and Elizabeth I had to struggle against this. Margaret died in poverty, loneliness and isolation in France, with only her failure a constant companion.
What are you working on next?
I have abandoned medieval women and stepped across the divide into the Tudors, signing up a a three book deal with Orion Publishers about Queen Elizabeth I. I may have changed the era but I am sticking with women! What an opportunity she presents to write about a woman of power in a man’s world. I am well into the first book which is her uneasy early life up to becoming Queen. Sometimes it is a surprise that she survived to wear the crown.
Anne O’Brien is a best-selling author. Her latest book, The Queen and the Countess, is out now.
